Welcome to the Media Page

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Our nonprofit is called Way Maker.

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We actually started it in response to our for profit, Charleston property restoration.

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We do all types of home repairs, remodels and rebuilds and we were searching for people to hire and we found an untapped resource of people that are coming out of recovery, coming out of incarceration that need a second chance.

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I have always had a heart for the recovery community and people who are facing significant obstacles.

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If people serve their time when it's over, it's over.

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You served your time, you're out.

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Now, let's start fresh.

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Let's get right back to living and let's give you every opportunity we have in place an apprenticeship program to teach them the skills so that at the end of this program, they can sit for their contractor's license that they can start their own company if they so desire, they can in turn, give people an opportunity and pay it forward.

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There's something innate within us that desires to be a part of something bigger than us alone.

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I think work just indicates I have value.

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I have something to contribute.

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They're building a house and it's wonderful to see the growth in them, the, the pride that they take in what they do.

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It's amazing the skills that we gain here and what we learn in class, it gives me a chance to better myself to move forward in the future and have a better life.

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You go buy a house that's part of that building and it's, it's gonna be something that's gonna be there for a while that your son can be like, hey, my dad build that.

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You know, I had seven guys working here right now on this job site and I couldn't ask for a better team of people to work with me and I was happy they're, they're family to be here.

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We want to see people built, we want to see people live the fullest life and the fullest version of themselves that they can live.

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And we wanna open up as much opportunity for that as possible.

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Hello and welcome to Forgotten America, a podcast about the many places that get flown over, driven past or just plain forgotten and the people who call these places home.

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In each episode, we'll diagnose the unique challenges faced by rural America and unpack and explore the solutions to those challenges.

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We'll also share the culture stories and perspectives of forgotten Americans from the hilltop to the holler and the desert to the delta.

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I like to define poverty more than just financial that it really is an acceptance of meager possibility.

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You know, just living from a place of lack, not, not just financially but just even impoverished thinking.

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Charlotte and Kenny Webb have dedicated their work to finding innovative solutions to help formerly incarcerated and recovering individuals gain access to resources and employment opportunities through their company, Charleston property restoration.

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They hire fair chance employees and offer practical assistance through their nonprofit organization way maker.

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In this episode, Charlotte and Kenny tell Garrett why they decided to form a nonprofit organization aimed at removing barriers to reentry, how to think about compassion versus consequence and question the systematic catch 22 making it more difficult for those on the Road to Recovery, to reach their destination.

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Welcome back, everybody to another episode of Forgotten America.

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I am your host.

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As always Garrett Bay, Executive Director of the Cardinal Institute.

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Thanks for joining us.

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I'm really excited about today's episode.

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I am joined with by Charlotte and Kenny Webb of Charleston, West Virginia guys.

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Welcome to the podcast.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for having me.

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Hey, you.

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So, one of the things that we like to talk about here is the concept of bottom up solutions of everyday people trying to better their community in ways that they know best.

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And I came across your all story from a magazine article.

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I don't know, maybe 56 weeks ago at this point.

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And I got really excited about what you guys are doing.

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I think it's unique.

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I think it's especially beneficial for Charleston, West Virginia, for the broader Appalachia region.

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Frankly, I think it serves as a very, very interesting model.

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So Katie Charlotte before we kind of dive in to what it is you guys are doing that.

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Got me so excited.

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Can you just give our listeners a sense of your background and history and how you ended up here, Charlotte?

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You're you're more eloquent speaker than I am if you'd like to go ahead.

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Oh, yeah.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, we really appreciate the opportunity to share I'm Charlotte Webb and I'm the director of Way Maker, which is a local nonprofit here in Charleston that helps individuals reentering society after incarceration by helping them navigate the resources that are available for them.

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Then Kenny and I also own a company Charleston Property Restoration where we offer fair chance or some people call it second chance.

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We, we prefer the term fair chance employment.

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So people who have, you know, have been just as impacted maybe in recovery have an opportunity to earn a living wage to provide for themselves and their families.

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And we are not originally from West Virginia.

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We have been here help Kenny, I think eight years, eight years, I think 10 years.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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In 2013 is when we move your boy time flies.

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So we have been here.

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, and both of us are also in long term recovery and are so thankful for the people who came alongside us and when we came to West Virginia and, just began to get a feel for our city and our state and some of the challenges that were being faced, we just determined that we, we wanted to be a part of a solution, offering a solution.

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I love that.

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Kenny.

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What about you?

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What, what led you here?

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Well, my, my previous career with railroad, this was the next to the last stop was my last stop.

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, after moving here in 2013, I worked here for three years.

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Thought it was gonna be my final stop on a long journey with the railroad and they wanted me to move to New York.

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So I declined and retired early instead.

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And after a short period of inactivity with retirement, just catching my breath, I decided to start the Charleston property restoration.

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And my son and I we started it and it has grown exponentially and we just saw the benefits of helping others through the company.

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So when Charlotte and I have started Way Maker, we saw an opportunity with the fair chance employment to, to help others as others helped us in our time of need.

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So, that, that's how we ended up here is, this was just stop number eight on my railroad tour after eight transfers.

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I said enough was enough.

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I wasn't moving again cause I'd fallen in love with West Virginia.

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I love that.

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Now you guys have mentioned Charleston property restoration and then also way works.

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Can you give listeners just an idea of kind of what got a little bit more in depth as far as like what each one of those organizations does and then how they interact with one another.

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I in solving a problem as you guys see it.

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Yeah.

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Well, way, it's way maker and Way maker really is exactly what the name talks about.

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So when individuals come out of incarceration, people who've been justice impacted, especially if they have felonies on their records they face over 800 different consequences even after they finished out their sentence.

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So when they come out, they are just a multiple barriers that prevent them from having a restored life.

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For instance, you know, they may owe a lot of fines that have to be paid prior to getting their license back.

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They may have trouble finding housing.

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It, you know, housing here is limited whether or not you're just as impacted, but for those who are just as impacted that the problems increase exponentially, they may have trouble finding work because of their background checks.

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And so that's the whole purpose of way maker is that we're gonna help you find your way through this and find the employment places that are, that do recognize that people, you know, have made mistakes, they've made, you know, poor choices or errors in judgment.

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But anybody can be healed and healed and restored.

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And so we work on helping them find their way, you know, through all of the resources that are available to them.

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And some of those obstacles are things that we take for granted birth certificates, I DS driver's license.

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You know, we just send off and get them with some of these, these people, you know, they've been incarcerated or homeless and, you know, they've lost track of all their, their documentation and trying to get that is one of the basic things that we have to do because you can't get a job without an ID.

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You can't get an ID without a birth certificate.

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So it's just that everything is connected in, in a linear fashion and way maker has connections where we can get all these lost documents and items and get them together and get everybody back where they need to be.

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Were places like I said, we take for granted.

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That's such a good point.

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I'm glad you brought that up about,, birth certificates.

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I know one gentleman, I was helping get a birth certificate and I filled out the form to get that sent off.

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And about an hour later he called and he said, I just found out that the person's name I gave you was not my dad and he had no idea who his father was.

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And you, you know, you don't think about, you know, we think about the nuclear family, we think about, you know, that everybody has a file folder with important documents in.

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But a lot of the people that, you know, are coming out of incarceration haven't led those kinds of lives.

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They haven't been raised in a nuclear family.

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There, there is no lockbox with their, with their personal effects in it.

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A lot of them have been in foster care, the majority of their lives.

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They don't even, may not even know who their parents are, whose name is on that birth certificate.

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So there are so many barriers that,, you know, they face just like Kenny said that we take for granted that that's what we see as normal is not normal,, for a lot of people.

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Yeah, those are both just absolutely, very excellent points.

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And, you know, I think maybe if folks can't relate to something like that, if any of you have ever tried starting a business or really tried to kind of go out on your own with just facing the litany of paperwork.

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It, it kind of administrative nightmares.

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I think you can probably sympathize with what some of these folks are, are dealing with, especially given the kind of backgrounds that they have.

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I, I'm curious guys, how do you find these people or, or maybe a better way to put it is how do they find you?

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That's a good question and we really get referrals from a lot of different places Before actually starting way maker.

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I also was working through with Marshall University through core, which is creating opportunities for recovery, employment.

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And so I had a, a period of time where I was getting connected with the recovery community and the Reentry Councils and established a lot of relationships and, you know, gained credibility with my peers and the partners in the field.

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And so they, they know that because I'm not just focused on recovery that now I have you know, included Reentry as well, but they still know me.

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And so I, you know, I get referrals from our city through the Q RT, which is a quick response team.

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I get referrals from sober living homes.

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I get a lot of referrals from other clients who will say, oh, you helped me.

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Is it ok if I share your number with my friend and and then we get referrals even from other organizations that do this sort of work.

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like jobs and hope and jobs and hope offers a lot of resources.

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But there's a, a period before you can access those.

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So you have to do some things with jobs and hope in order to be eligible.

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And so jobs and hope will refer them to me in that interim period and I'm able to help them get, you know, get on the right track, get those documents, get things in place.

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So once they are eligible for the jobs and hope services, they can just hit the ground running.

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So that's very interesting.

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I was writing down a couple questions as, as you were talking Charlotte things that are just kind of popping into my mind because I, I just think a lot of people are just so unfamiliar with the sort of environment and, and the obstacles that these people are facing when they come to you guys, when they, when when someone comes to what you guys are doing, what is the typical emotions they're facing are they defeated.

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Are they optimistic?

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Are they enthusiastic?

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Just try to walk our listeners through the mental state that you guys often see whenever you're first starting to help somebody out.

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Well, I, I think probably the, the best word to describe it is completely overwhelmed.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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If you think about somebody who's been incarceration,, they typically have,, the ability to make maybe 100 decisions a day.

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So, if they've been in there multiple years, you think about somebody who's been in there for a 10 year sentence, a 20 year sentence, 35 years, however long it has been every, but they've been told every day, what time to eat, what time to get up, what time to go to sleep when they can go to the bathroom and they can go outside, everything in their day is already decided for them.

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But as,, you know, a regular person going to work and, you know, having a family, we make over 60,000 decisions a day.

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And so to go from that to the, you know, to go from incarceration to being released and all at once, like you're responsible for deciding that, what do you, what do you want to eat?

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I will often take them to a,, a food pantry here in town that lets them choose and they will look at me and at every choice like, I don't know, I don't know if I want that cereal or that cereal.

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I don't know if I want chicken or beef.

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I don't know.

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And,, I know one client I had talked about going to the grocery store and he said I left with nothing because I wanted some cereal so badly.

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And I walked in and there's a wall of cereal and I, I don't know what to choose.

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And he said, and then people are ducking in under me and reaching over me to get it.

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He said, which in prison will get you killed.

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He said, I just got so fearful.

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He said I had to go home.

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I didn't even know how to deal with all that.

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You know, all that was facing me right then.

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Wow, that's the, the only thing I can think of that comes anywhere close to something like that, that sense of just kind of stranger in a strange land is when I go to a foreign country and you don't speak the language, you don't understand the cultural norms, kind of your decision making process is a lot different than people in another culture.

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Just kind of the day to day interactions are completely exhausting in a, in a, in a totally different way.

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So I'm sure a lot of people can sympathize with these people coming out of prison or foster care or whatever it happens to be.

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So, Kenny, I want to go back to something that you had said that, you know, kind of Charleston was your, your eighth stop?

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You weren't gonna do 1/9 1.

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You weren't heading to New York and trust me, I can sympathize with that.

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That seems like a little too neat though.

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You said you, you loved West Virginia?

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Was there something more intrinsic or did you feel some sort of pull to stay here?

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Did you get a sense of what you and Charlotte are doing was needed?

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Well, and, and I'm going to just put this out here as it is Charlotte.

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And I have felt all along that we were going to retire in Charleston in our minds.

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We had Charleston South Carolina in our mind and it just goes to show how,, and I'm just gonna throw that God has a sense of humor.

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He knew we were coming to Charleston, West Virginia, but he didn't tell us that we actually got here and we moved here.

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We had a, a love, we're from Virginia.

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So we made all the West Virginia jokes that used to be made.

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We, we laughed, we ri ridiculed until we got here and we just fell in love with the people.

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I had worked here intermittently with the railroad in my 35 year career.

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I would, you know, we moved around, I'd be here for a while.

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Then we go to other states of Georgia, North Carolina.

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And,, you know, so I had some,, dealing with West Virginia but not an intimate relationship with the people here until I got transferred here in 2013.

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And I worked side by side with these people and,, just come to know their heart to know that what they were capable of.

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And Charlotte has said this in the past we were on the outside looking in and we could see the,, what's the word,, the,, yes, there you go.

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The value that they had and could offer, but they did not sense that themselves.

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They were always the, the low ones looking for somebody else to take care of.

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There's always gonna be another coal mine or another big company or some politician was going to be their rescuer and instead of being able to do it themselves and, you know, we came, we see the value in them, we see what they're capable of doing and, and when we would start to encourage them and tell them, you know, you can do this.

18:01

It was like utter disbelief that, that somebody else thought they had value something to offer.

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, and, you know, it was, it was a growing process, a learning process for them to be able to, you know, hold their heads up and say, yeah, we got this and we just weren't going to abandon that and go off somewhere else.

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We knew that this is where we were supposed to be.

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Oh, it's beautiful.

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And I, you know, I, I'm not overly religious or anything.

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Like that.

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But I, but I do think there's something that, that comes from having faith, the idea that we're all child of God, right?

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That, that we all have sort of an inherent and, and equal dignity, right?

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And I, I think whenever I sat down with you guys first to kind of get to know you a little bit better.

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A few weeks ago, that was just coming out of you guys.

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the idea that you believe that everyone can contribute, everyone is valuable.

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How did you guys, is that something that you've always felt or is that something that as you've begun working with these people that you understand, everybody deserves a fair chance.

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We're just seeing how, especially the ones that have been incarcerated and come out.

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They, they made poor choices.

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It's, you know, we all make bad decisions, some decisions are worse than others.

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And you know, they, you know, these were successful people prior to those bad decisions and now here they are, they're coming out, they've got this black cloud hanging over their head and they feel like they're never going to get out where the sunshine is and, and can, you know, be a contributing member of society.

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You know, this is this stigma is gonna follow me for the rest of my life.

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And you know, along comes way maker and Charleston property restoration and we have faith in them and you know, we believe in them.

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We give them that, that fair chance to get reestablished and to make something of themselves.

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And you would not believe the difference.

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And, and we were just talking about this.

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we had a, a staff meeting a couple weeks ago and then we had a little birthday gathering here at our home, myself and one of my employees, and back to back birthdays on the 28th and 29th.

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And so, you know, we have little celebrations, you know, they're family to us.

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And one of them made a comment in the staff meeting.

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He said that he never thought that he would get back into the and be able to get back into the construction business because of the environment is so inherently riddled with drug and alcohol abuse.

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And that was not someplace that he felt safe and comfortable going back into.

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So he thought he would never be able to do what he really enjoyed doing.

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And then he found us or we found him however you wanna look at it.

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And he said, I, I feel safe working here at CPR.

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I never thought I'd, I'd feel safe working in the construction industry.

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I was reluctant to even take the job because I know what, what had gone on in the past.

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And he said now here I am able to come to work every day.

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I'm making something in my life.

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He's, he's reestablished relationships with his Children.

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, he's, you know, he's getting these bills and everything paid off.

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He's getting life in order and that is just so rewarding, be there with him day by day and watch that growth.

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And Charlotte and I were just talking about how as a group we have six employ, well, eight employees now eight employees and how they all come together as a family.

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They laugh, they joke, they carry on, they pick at one another, but when there's a time of need and support, they're right there with them, they're messaging, they're texting, they're talking about what went on over the weekend.

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They're telling each other if you are struggling with something, you call me.

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I'm here.

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I, I don't know how I'll get to where you're at, but I'm here.

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We'll, we'll get together because they're separated.

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Some of them are separated by a few miles and it's not easy for them to,, be able to,, you know, connect outside of work just for transportation needs and it's, it's just a family and it's growing and, and we hope we have a, a larger family than we have.

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Now.

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You know, when, when you think about people who've been incarcerated or who have been in addiction, who have made, you know, choices that have led them down this path, you know, I, we're not at all saying that there aren't consequences for, you know, what you do.

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Kenny and I both like I said, are in long term recovery.

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And at the height of my addiction, like I had destroyed our marriage, I had abandoned my Children.

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I had been fired.

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And, you know, I had an encounter with people who are in 12 step programs.

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They talk about your higher power.

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That's exactly what I'm talking about.

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I had a radical encounter with God that changed everything and changed my whole trajectory.

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And so it, it's not that there aren't consequences, you know, from our decisions.

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But it's at, at what point can you turn aside from that and say that's who I was, that is not who I am now and begin to live a life that more accurately represents the person that you're created to be and the, the plan that there is for life, you know, I can't imagine.

23:31

you know, I made horrible, horrible decisions in my addiction and hurt so many people hurt, you know, the people who are most important to me.

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I can't imagine like people who have a felony on their record and are expected to live under that cloud of the worst decision that they've ever made to live under that the rest of their lives.

23:53

You know, I think we all have to have the, the grace extended to us to make a change and to go a different direction and for people to acknowledge.

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Yeah, you are different, you are making good decisions, you are going, you know, down a good path and we just want to celebrate that and we wanna celebrate that with the, the people that we encounter and that we have an opportunity to serve.

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We celebrate those decisions to get back on track.

24:25

That's a Charlotte.

24:27

Frankly, you, you kind of stole a question from me because I was gonna, one of the things I've been thinking about quite a bit is how kind of regular everyday people kind of just go about their lives, going to work, living in neighborhoods.

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You know, what role they play in solving this crisis?

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How are you going to define this crisis?

24:49

And I've been thinking about it in terms of compassion or consequence, right?

24:54

And I, I think there's a place for both of those and I'm, I'm just curious if you guys have given any thought to the role that just kind of everyday people should be playing in this, is it call the police and then make sure everything is ok afterwards.

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Is it call local health counselors?

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Is it, you know, give someone $5 walking down the street, offer them, offer to take somebody to a hot meal.

25:19

I, I just for the regular everyday people that are seeing, you know, the consequences of drug addiction in their neighborhoods.

25:25

What what advice do you guys have for people and how, how should they think about compassion versus consequence?

25:35

That's a great question.

25:37

I, you know, I think what comes to mind first is but for the grace of God, so go I, you know, we, we think a lot of times about people who've been incarcerated or been in addiction and a lot of times those are just inextricably connected.

25:58

And you know, when people are in addiction, you make decisions you would have never made.

26:06

I do not ban an addiction.

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And so it, I think just keeping at the forefront of your mind, you know, these are not like some different group of people.

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They are human beings made in the image of God, who for whatever reason were in circumstances and situations in their lives that they, you know, again made, made bad decisions.

26:40

But just recognize that they're human, just like we are, ours might not be on the front page of the newspaper or on the police blotter, you know, our, our mistakes might not be there, but we're all, you know, doing the best we can at that moment.

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And sometimes it's, you know, we make terrible choices, sometimes we make ok choices.

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And so just recognizing like they are human, they are made in the image of God.

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And you know, as, as long as they're living, they do have an opportunity to change and to make a difference and go a different way.

27:27

Can he, I've been reading a lot about kind of AAA crisis of young males in this country.

27:36

And I'm curious, well, first of all, let me check an assumption.

27:40

I assume most of the people that are coming to you guys for help are, are they males?

27:46

We have,, two female employees.

27:49

Yes, we do.

27:49

And, and the majority that are out on the job site are, are men.

27:53

We're, and we're not opposed to having women, even though that, you know, that just adds another layer of complexity to everything.

28:00

But, you know, but it is a majority of males and a lot of them.

28:05

I'm, I'm just, you know, engaging with the guys at work, how they talk about, they had no relationship with their father or they, you know, one gentleman, his father died when he was young.

28:16

So he, you know, he had a stepfather that brought him up and raised him and, or they had no father, the mother brought him up.

28:24

So, and they kind of look to me as, as a, a father figure or a role model.

28:30

And,, you know, that just, that just really gets to me sometimes when, you know, they come to me, not just for construction advice, but they'll come to me for life advice and, you know, and then you realize that they had nobody to teach them this stuff and that may have been part of what led to them to make their poor decisions.

28:50

Nobody was there to be beside him to guide them.

28:54

I was a hardheaded teenager.

28:56

I made bad choices back then.

28:59

But I did have a father that was there to try to guide me.

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But, you know, you go back to, they didn't have anybody.

29:05

They're out, they're running wild.

29:07

Mom's doing the best she can, but they're running the streets and they don't have a male father figure to reel them in, so to speak.

29:16

So,, yeah, it's, it's tough listening to, to them and they recall their experiences growing up.

29:25

And, you know, I've had one even said, you know, I wish I'd had a father that, that would have straightened me out back when I was younger and I wouldn't be where I am now.

29:35

Yeah, it's not to be overly philosophical about this.

29:39

But again, this is just something I've been thinking about for quite some time and I, I'm curious if you guys have any thoughts or theories on this, but let me just kind of pick your brain a little bit.

29:48

I mean, what is it about?

29:51

What is it you see in young men that are coming to you that perhaps is different than young women?

29:57

Right?

29:57

So, I think it's kind of obvious to a lot of people at this point that there's something young men are struggling to deal with, I think more acutely than, than what women are in today's age.

30:08

Have you guys thought about that at all?

30:09

And kind of what, what that means?

30:15

And it's ok if the answer is no, that's a very broad philosophical question but, you know, it just seems like men today are just having some problems that, that are not, felt, you know, in the same way,, by women.

30:30

Charlotte.

30:30

What are you, what are your thoughts on that?

30:34

Well, I'm, I'm just thinking back to some research done by,, Ruby Payne.

30:39

She is a, a great researcher around poverty and I, I like to define poverty more than just financial that it really is an acceptance of meager possibility, you know, just living from a place of lack, not, not just financially but, just even impoverished thinking.

31:03

And she talks about how,, with people in poverty that the mother really is the central figure.

31:13

And so you think about like when there is, a divorce or it's the man that usually leaves.

31:23

And so how, that's, that's the picture that, you know, the the boys grow up with is that if things get hard, she's the one that's gonna stand, you know, or stay and the man leaves or the dad leaves.

31:42

And so you've got like that sense of abandonment and then if things get hard is, you know, that, that becomes the, the model that they've seen, like I'm just gonna escape.

31:56

And so for a lot of people that escape comes through addiction or,, you know, even getting high on,, things that give you an adrenaline rush.

32:11

So like still in a car or, you know, doing something illegal.

32:16

And so I just, I think a lot of it is just the one because there is such a prevalence of divorce and, you know, families breaking up that it really has caused this anxiety in all of our kids.

32:33

you know, that, that, that people don't stay together anymore and it's the man who's gonna have to leave the dad who's gonna have to leave.

32:42

And so what does that say about me?

32:45

You know, as a male, like, what's, what does my future look like?

32:50

And that, you know, that just becomes the model.

32:54

That was a, a, an interesting phrase.

32:56

I've never heard it before.

32:57

You said that, that Ruby Payne who is a researcher of poverty, her definition of poverty was the acceptance of meager possibility.

33:05

Did I hear that?

33:06

Right.

33:06

Yeah, that didn't come from her.

33:08

That actually came from another gentleman Graham Cook.

33:11

But I, that's just the way I've began to see poverty more than just finances.

33:18

Yeah, I love that.

33:19

The acceptance of meager possibility.

33:21

That's such an interesting phrase.

33:22

And it really sums up a lot,, in terms of, I think current state and then also what your expectations are for your own future.

33:30

I'm gonna have to look into that a little bit more, Kenny.

33:33

One of the things that,, that I've, I've read more articles about lately, it seems like more things are coming out about this, more people are recognizing the value of physical labor, especially for men.

33:47

I, I'm curious, what is it, do you think manual, physical labor improving?

33:54

I mean, your, the name of your organization on the, on the one side is Charleston property restoration.

34:01

What is it about physically engaging and restoring something and, and applying muscle to a project do you think is, is redemptive or, or am I off track?

34:11

No, not.

34:12

You're, you're right on track.

34:14

There is something of satisfying that you, you're doing something with your hands.

34:20

You're, you're taking,, like we were digging a foundation, you know, and, and having to bust up small concrete, there's something to take in a sledge hammer to concrete, to bust it up to create something new.

34:33

And that gives you a self,, a sense of accomplishment that, you know, we overcame what was here.

34:40

We did it, we exerted our muscles.

34:42

Yeah, we're sore, we're tired, but we've accomplished something and we accomplished it together because they would, they would change off, swap off doing the physical labor and encourage and pick on one another.

34:56

But, you know, it, it's, it's just something about that.

34:59

, as Tim Allen used to say on that home and put more power, more power to do that.

35:06

And it's just a bonding thing there that your men, you've come together, you've, you've accepted a challenge and you've overcome it through means of physical force and, and work and sweat off your brow.

35:19

And it does mean something to him when we get through with these big heavy jobs, they all look back, they're proud.

35:26

You can see the pride in their work, the pride and, and they're coming together as a team and there's something there that,, that, that's just the best way I can explain it.

35:36

There's just something there, some sense of accomplishment.

35:40

Yeah, I think there's a, there's an innate need for, for men to come together to overcome things, whether it's on a football team, whether it's in a military, whether it's on an engineering problem.

35:51

II, I just think there's something there and I think it's one of the sadder things about men as, as they get older, as they lose a lot of those social circles, they lose a lot of the friendship circles and there's really, there's a lot of data on this but, you know, women tend to keep the same friends over their lives, they add new ones.

36:09

And so they tend to have fairly robust friendship circles.

36:12

Men as they age, tend to lose a lot of friends and you, they tend to see their social circles kind of shrink.

36:19

And I think that's a real tragedy.

36:20

And I think for any men that are out there listening to this, be intentional about keeping up with your friends, be intentional about meeting new people because there's likely gonna come a time in your life when you're going to need to rely on those people.

36:35

And as, as you get older, unfortunately, your parents aren't gonna be there.

36:40

Maybe your aunts and uncles aren't gonna be there.

36:42

And so you really need to make sure you're intentional about keeping your, your friendship circles robust.

36:47

, this is maybe a little bit of a, this is probably a tough question too for you guys.

36:54

But, you know, you've been doing this a long time now, you've had a lot of people come through way works and Charleston property restoration.

37:02

Can you tell if somebody's gonna be successful or not when they come to you?

37:06

, we have a vetting process for the construction, construction knowledge side of CPR.

37:15

And I've, we've had a couple that have come through that apparently watched a lot of HGTV and they knew the local buzzwords or the, the, the up to date buzzwords.

37:29

But when they go to put it into practice, they had not a clue what they were doing.

37:33

So, you know, you, you know, you got a feel for those in that situation that, you know, they came up, they boasted.

37:39

Oh, yeah, I can do this.

37:41

I, you know, I like doing that.

37:42

I think one of the buzzwords, open concept.

37:45

Yeah, that's, that's the only kind of construction I ever did.

37:48

But when you ask them to go put something into play, you could tell they didn't do it.

37:52

So those, that's the low, low hanging fruit.

37:54

You can tell they won't be successful but there, there's some that come and,,, they're on the job site, you can tell they're looking for the, the easy way, what, what's the least I can do and still get by here.

38:10

And when you start calling, calling on and calling them out about, you know, doing it, then you can tell they're looking for an exit plan at that stage.

38:18

And we've had a couple that,, you know, that, that unfortunately went that route, they didn't choose to stick it out and, you know, try to make something better.

38:27

They were just looking for the easy pickings what they could grab and go, so to speak.

38:32

So, there's a couple of them that that we've had experience with that that were easy to identify, but it's sometimes it takes a while before you can realize what's going on with them.

38:45

And 11 of the things that's really helped us too is when so Kenny started the company before we started the nonprofit.

38:55

And after he started the company, you know, our heart was to hire people who needed fair chance employment and, you know, needed another opportunity.

39:06

And we quickly saw like, you know, there's a huge gap between recovery and employment.

39:15

And so when we started, we maker that gave us an opportunity to kind of front load, getting some things in place.

39:24

So, you know, they had secure housing, they had their documentation, they we could work out transportation issues, we could make sure they had the clothing that they would need.

39:37

So they were, you know, when you think about Maslow's hierarchy, they weren't coming to work, desperate, They could feel more secure.

39:48

And so once we got that in place, we found it's not a not, I'm not sure how to phrase it other than we got better quality workers because they came with more support already in place.

40:11

And so they were more prepared to work and to put in the hours.

40:16

And, you know, Kenny's always talking about how faithfulness trumps skill.

40:23

You know, I can teach you the skills, but if you're not willing to be faithful and to show up, you know, I can't help you, then there's nothing to do.

40:32

That's a choice you're gonna have to make.

40:34

And we've just found that they, you know, the people we have now, man, they are top notch.

40:43

So can you clarify the interaction between Charleston property restoration and the nonprofit way maker?

40:53

Yes, we so I get referrals.

41:00

you know, like I said, from a lot of different organizations and so through way maker, I do an intake that gives me a comprehensive picture of what gaps there might be.

41:13

You know, it may be the documentation.

41:15

It may be they don't have clothes to wear.

41:20

you know, whatever those things are, way maker can take care of putting those things in place or if they need treatment or, and then I, our goal with Way Maker is helping people get employed.

41:35

So that's our, our ultimate goal of getting them good jobs that they can provide for themselves and their families.

41:45

So if in the intake, they say they have an interest in construction or they've done construction work before, then I refer them to Kenny and Kenny.

41:57

You can tell them what you do and I'll give them, yeah, I'll give them a phone interview.

42:02

You know, ask to experience what they've done what they enjoy doing and you know how long they've been doing it.

42:07

And, you know, if, if they sound promising, you know, you know, I tell them, you know, we'll take you on, on a trial basis.

42:13

We'll see how things,, work out.

42:15

You know, see if you actually have the skills that you profess to have and, and that you're willing to come to work every day.

42:22

Charlotte has had some instances where she was more invested in them getting a job than they were,, one individual,, offered him a job.

42:31

We sent him the paperwork and 12 days later, he'd never sent the paperwork back in.

42:36

So, you know, there we could tell right then that was gonna be another one that just wasn't gonna cut it.

42:41

And the, the beautiful thing about it is we've also had ones that we've hired with the company that relapsed.

42:50

And in that case, Kenny refers them right back to weigh maker.

42:54

And we, we really do keep those separate.

42:58

I mean, I'm involved in the company as well as way maker, but we keep all that separate so he can refer them right back over and, you know, I'll, I'll pick, pick up their case then and, you know, get them treatment,, you know, detox whatever is needed to get them back on track again.

43:20

So I, I know a lot of this conversation and just a few questions left here is sort of the, the beautiful side of this, the redemptive side of it.

43:27

The idea that you're helping these individuals feel valued, getting them in touch with a sense of dignity perhaps for the first time in their entire lives.

43:38

But, and I know it's a passion project for you guys.

43:41

But there have got to be times I think Kenny I saw on your Facebook page you had said, you know, getting up at 4:45 a.m. every morning and going to work there have got to be times where you guys just kind of roll your eyes or you don't want to get out of bed or you're the next hurdle seems impossibly high.

44:00

What do you guys do to overcome that?

44:04

Personally, I think about those that are depending on me and it starts with Charlotte right there beside me, to all of our employees.

44:13

They're depending on me as a leader,, to get up and,, do my part.

44:21

You know, if I lay down on the job then that's just a domino effect right down to the newest higher employee.

44:29

If, if I give up on it and on them, then, you know, what are they gonna think?

44:34

So, I get up,, you know, do what I do every day and go make another and there have been some hard days, just this week when we were talking about it, it would have just been so nice just to turn the alarm off and just roll back over and just said the heck with it for a day.

44:52

But there are people, employees, customers that are depending on us to get in there and, and finish the projects that they want done.

45:00

So it's just that sense of commitment to, to the vision, the way maker and CPR to, to, you know, go through the tough times just to, what was the term rich used to use?

45:13

Charlotte plow through and it wouldn't plow through.

45:18

But something that affected, we just had to keep going, keep moving forward and get through the tough times and, and that's, that's what, what it is.

45:27

You know, there are people that are depending on us to do our part so they can do their part and their recovery and their restoration.

45:34

Charlotte.

45:34

What about for you?

45:36

What helps you get up on those tough mornings.

45:39

Well, there's a, a, an old saying that without vision people perish.

45:43

And I, I think just like Kenny said, it really is that we see a vision for the future and we recognize we are a part of something that's way bigger than us.

45:55

It's way bigger than our nonprofit, our company.

45:58

And, but we do have,, a role to play.

46:03

We do have a purpose and we have, a part in seeing our city restored, seeing our state restored, seeing the Appalachian region restored.

46:14

And so, you know, man, if, if we lay down everybody else might be doing their part, but there's still gonna be something missing because we have a part too.

46:26

And I, I believe that for anybody that lives here, like we all have a part to play in seeing people live the best version of themselves and, you know, encouraging and walking alongside and, and just doing whatever is needed.

46:45

you know, to encourage people to, to live their best life.

46:51

Oh, it's beautifully said, beautifully said, just a couple of questions left before I let you guys go here, Kenny, you had mentioned your birthday.

46:57

It was just yesterday and I don't know about you, but my last few birthdays have been something of a, a contemplative time and Charlotte, you're gonna get this exact same question.

47:07

So don't think you're gonna, you're gonna duck away from this one.

47:10

Let's fast forward 15 years from now, 20 years from now.

47:13

And you're kind of looking back on what you guys are doing.

47:16

What do you hope to see?

47:18

What, what do you think success looks like?

47:21

1520 years from now?

47:22

Have you thought about that?

47:24

Yes.

47:25

Yes, I have.

47:26

And our youngest son is one of our employees and we're, we're planting all these same seeds in him as, as we are,, you know, with ourselves and, and he sees and, and recognizes the vision that, that we're trying to put forth here, but to be able in the future to look back and see something that we started as a small seed planted and how it's growing and how the, the guys that are working with us are paying it forward because we're all about the success of our employees.

48:03

We're going to be starting a, an apprenticeship soon here where when they, these guys finish it, they'll be able to get an associate's degree and if they so choose their own contractor's license and they can go forth and multiply businesses and, and our goal is that they will have the, the same vision of fair chance employment and, you know, giving people an opportunity just like they were.

48:27

So we'll be able to look back and see that the seeds that we've planted here is in our little small part of the world can be cast about and multiplied and we see many places that are, that are doing the same thing that they are starting businesses and they're giving people the second chance, third chance, sometimes, even fourth chance that, that they need because it's not always just a one and done.

48:52

Sometimes you have a relapse and you go back and you just got to get up the next day and start all over again from the beginning.

48:59

And we're just hoping that they will, do that and we'll be able to look back and see that it wasn't in vain that, that once that we finally retired from it or died or whatever that,, it goes on after, even after we're gone, it's, it's,, self perpetuating that it's not just reliant on, on Charlotte and I's efforts, but others will pick up the torch and they will, they will carry on the, the race that and be to be able to sit back and watch it.

49:29

, you know, that that's gonna be the real reward watching it go and prosper and be there in an advisory role if, if they so choose and just to help keep it going.

49:42

Charlotte.

49:43

What about for you?

49:44

Wow.

49:45

Wow.

49:45

Wow.

49:45

That he said that so perfectly.

49:48

I know.

49:48

That's tough.

49:48

That's a tough act to follow that.

49:51

Yeah, that absolutely is our heart, you know, we believe and,, every, every engagement.

49:59

So, for instance, every job that we take, we, our goal is every,, every opportunity should be a win, win for everybody.

50:09

We wanna see the customer win, we wanna see the employees win, we wanna see the company win, we wanna see the community win.

50:17

And so that really is our hope that we, just like you said, like that, we're planting, that we're planting these types of standards and our workers.

50:30

So that, you know, when they're faced with a decision about how to do business or how to,, you know, how do I make a decision in this, in this situation?

50:42

That that's their mindset, there is a way that everybody can win.

50:46

And so we're trying to set them up for the best chance of winning and being a success no matter what decision they make.

50:56

So at the end of that apprenticeship, if they decide to stay with us, like we'll, we'll franchise it out.

51:03

We'll have CPR in Morgantown and Parkersburg and the tri-state area and make them,, you know, for, and our team leaders, if they decide to move back home, they've got that contractor's license where they can start their own business and do the exact same thing wherever,, they decide to move.

51:24

And,, just like Kenny said, just seeing,, that multiplied out that they, they recognize that they have value and they can add value,, wherever they are, whatever they're doing that they have an opportunity to water the ground.

51:40

, hopefully, just like they've seen,,, when in the time that they've been with us.

51:47

That's so beautiful.

51:48

And I, I'm, I'm reminded of a quote that Greek Proverb is one of my favorite.

51:53

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

51:59

Yeah, I think like that.

52:00

Yeah, that's just, it's one of my favorite neural story.

52:03

Just absolutely reminds me of that.

52:05

Just two questions, guys.

52:07

What tips do you have for people that are, they sense a problem in their community?

52:12

They sense it.

52:13

Maybe they're, they feel a calling to help.

52:16

What what practical advice could you give people who maybe are feeling that?

52:22

I guess in the simplest terms that I was a leader in the railroad industry would be that as far as treating people, how would you want to be treated if the roles were reversed?

52:34

And that's, that's really what it's all about.

52:36

, you were asking earlier and I meant to say this then about, you know, what can people do?

52:41

Do they give them money?

52:42

Do they buy a meal?

52:43

Just think about it.

52:44

If the roles were reversed, how would you want to be treated and carry on?

52:48

And, and that goes even now.

52:52

We, we had no business experience, we had no experience running a nonprofit.

52:58

We just, we felt the calling.

53:00

We jumped in, we've made mistakes but we keep going and, and just don't get discouraged, I guess is what I'm trying to say in a round about way, don't get discouraged.

53:09

If you feel the urge to do something to start a business, to start a nonprofit, to volunteer to help with somebody else that's already got something going.

53:18

Just jump in, do the best you can.

53:21

It's nobody's perfect at it.

53:23

You're gonna make mistakes, it's gonna get messy at times.

53:26

It's gonna be hard.

53:28

But don't limit yourself as to what you, you can do because you do make a difference.

53:34

Fantastic.

53:35

Charlotte.

53:35

Anything to add to that.

53:37

Yeah, I would just add, just take a step like we, we can't tell you what it's gonna look like a year from now or five years from now.

53:48

We have some ideas, but literally for us, it has been every morning like we just pray like Lord order our steps for today and we, we try to walk through the day just as faithfully as we can and be faithful to what we already know.

54:07

And so for someone just thinking like I've got an idea, take a step towards that because once you take a step, you get more revelation, you get more insight and wisdom and you'll get downloads about like, oh gosh, oh, here's another thing I can do.

54:26

And so don't try to think that you're, you know, don't think that you've got to have it all figured out or a 10 year plan.

54:34

Just take the next step.

54:37

Wonderful.

54:38

All right.

54:38

Guys last question, how can people help?

54:41

How can they keep track of, of what you guys are up to?

54:44

Just, here's your time to kind of plug what you're doing and tell people how they can help you out.

54:49

Well, we have our websites, so Charleston Property restoration.com is our company website and then the nonprofit website is WV way maker with an s.org.

55:07

So you can keep track of us there.

55:09

You can also keep track of us on our Facebook pages.

55:14

And all of our contact information, of course is on there and we are more than happy to help people.

55:21

Like if, if a business owner is thinking of doing the same thing or like how do I get started?

55:27

, you know, giving people fair chance employment or being that type of employer.

55:33

We are more than happy to help with that too.

55:36

Just, you know, any way that people wanna get involved, we are happy, happy, happy to help.

55:45

Yeah, and same, same here with the CPR stuff.

55:49

You know, if, if somebody's wanted to know, you know, what did, what were the first steps you have to take to get the construction business started,, you know, get it off the ground.

55:59

You know, I can tell them what I did.

56:01

I'm not saying that everything I did was the perfect way of doing it.

56:05

But, you know, I'll gladly share my experiences what I went through and if I had to do over again, what changes I would make.

56:14

So, yeah, this all you gotta do is just reach out to us.

56:17

You guys are too modest.

56:19

You're too humble.

56:20

Even when I gave you the chance to say what you need, you say this is how we can help your listeners.

56:26

Well, listen, folks go on West Virginia Way maker.org WV.

56:31

Way maker.org.

56:32

There's a do a tab on the upper right hand corner.

56:35

I, is it a tax deductible donation guys?

56:38

Yes, it certainly is.

56:39

We're a registered nonprofit tax deductible donation.

56:43

Help these guys out.

56:44

Can you, I think one time you had told me you, you could use more transportation.

56:47

Is that accurate?

56:48

Oh, that is true.

56:50

We, when this first started with just myself and my son working I never envisioned I have transportation needs.

56:58

We have two crew cab, pickup trucks and that's still not enough.

57:02

So sometimes Charlotte has to pitch in and help move people from job to job.

57:07

So, you know, transportation is a need to and from the job sites, from wherever they're the guys are residing.

57:16

You know, I have, I, I, you know, we, we go out, we pick them up every day, we pick them up.

57:22

We take when they got to go, if they have appointments in the middle of the day, we see to it, they get to their appointment.

57:27

So the transportation is a big need.

57:30

Yeah, none of our guys when they first started had a driver's license.

57:35

, and they're like, some are from sober living homes but didn't provide transportation.

57:41

So Kenny provides that for him every day.

57:44

And like you said, even if they, you know, have meetings with a parole officer,, you know, appointments, we, we make sure they get to those too, otherwise they wouldn't be able to, to work, you know, they, or they would have to miss the whole day.

58:01

Yeah, so he does a lot.

58:04

Well, if you have an old vehicle, if you have, if you want to donate gas cards, all of that stuff is tax deductible.

58:11

Folks.

58:11

Open up your hearts.

58:12

What they're doing is, is a fantastic service to our community.

58:16

If you're, if you're touched by this, please reach out to me, I'd be more than happy to put you in, in touch with Charlotte and Kenny.

58:23

I really believe in what they're doing and I know a lot of people will believe in it whenever they hear this episode.

58:27

Guys.

58:28

I just want to appreciate you for taking an hour out of your day and sharing your story with our listeners.

58:33

I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna be moved by it and Kenny happy belated birthday, my friend and I look forward to working with you guys to whatever extent we can in the future.

58:43

Thank you for joining us today on this episode.

58:45

Of forgotten America.

58:47

Thank you so much.

58:48

Thanks for having us.

58:51

Thanks for joining us for this week's conversation.

58:53

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58:57

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59:00

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